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Jun 08, 2022 View:

without wheat rye or barley

i am not a chemist or a distiller -- but i have read SOME of the literature that explains how the gluten peptide stays behind in the distillation process.

i have also read the literature (albeit, some of it is purely anecodotal) that distilled spirits that source wheat, rye, or barley (malt) can cause overt reactions in persons with celiac sprue/wheat allergy.

so rather than delve into the debate of whether beer and alcohol (liquor/liqueurs) derived in any percentage or by any process from wheat, rye, or barley do contain gluten or can cause a celiac-gut reaction (immediate or cummulative), i am focusing on finding products and processes that are, in fact derived from non-gluten sources.

my primarly search at this time is for a bourbon/whiskey style product that does not derive from the wheat, rye, or barley and that does not use wheat, rye, or barley in flavoring, aging, coloring, processing, sourcing, mixing, or packaging.

in particular, the next most popular grain might be corn -- but i have been told that it is very difficult, these days, to find corn that will sprout naturally without recourse to an external enzyme process.

can anyone provide any information in this regard?

i am NOT looking for recipes and i am NOT looking to start distilling my own products. I may try to develop a list that commercial establishments can refer to in order to answer patron questions.

i have a fair listing of beers, wines, vodkas, tequilas, and rums that are allegedly GF, but if anyone has any information on such products, that information would be welcome and could confirm (or call into question) such unverified information.

i do realize that there may be regulation pending in either Canada or the USA regarding content labeling in alcohol products, but i am not sensing that the regulations are moving quickly to promulgation.

i also realize that there is a difference between tested by a third party and then "certified GF" AND merely saying one's product does not source gluten-based ingredients, additives, or processes.

as you ponder these questions, do keep in mind that at least 3% of the american population is presumed to have celiac sprue/disease or wheat intolerance -- and the research that i read indicates that the number could be higher, either because the condition is underdiagnosed or because its rate of incidence is increasing.

please feel free to either email me or post a reply.

thanks!!!!


Reply:

Hi,

I'm a new member here, but I believe that corn (maize) can be malted, but with some difficulty.

If indeed there are compounds pathogenic to coeliacs that can be carried over in distillation, then of course you must make your distilled product from materials that do not contain those pathogens in the first place. What those materials might be I do not know, but I'm sure your research into the coeliac condition will have familiarized you with the various foodstuffs that are pathogenic or otherwise to the sufferers thereof.

Regards,

Dan


Reply:

No offense, but it appears you're about to spread misinformation.

Gluten would not be in the distillate of a fermented wheat product. Unless that product has some secondary process that involves wheat, it should have no problem being certified as gluten free.

By ignoring that and promoting wheat-free spirits, people are going to infer that a wheat-free spirit is better for gluten-sensitivity. I suspect most distillers here would rather not have 3% of the American population mistakenly believe their products will make them sick.

I would suggest finding a food scientist or other professional that can provide you scientifically based facts, and not rely on anecdotal information.


Reply:

No offense, but it appears you're about to spread misinformation.

Gluten would not be in the distillate of a fermented wheat product. Unless that product has some secondary process that involves wheat, it should have no problem being certified as gluten free.

By ignoring that and promoting wheat-free spirits, people are going to infer that a wheat-free spirit is better for gluten-sensitivity. I suspect most distillers here would rather not have 3% of the American population mistakenly believe their products will make them sick.

I would suggest finding a food scientist or other professional that can provide you scientifically based facts, and not rely on anecdotal information.


Reply:

I am interested to see where this discussion goes. I wish I could input more, but I don't have the scientific know-how...


Reply:

If a PhD scientist has already published information explaining that gluten would not be distilled with a wheat/barley spirit, then I'm not sure what other evidence we could provide to convince you.

Distillation is a purification process that separates alcohol from the water, carbohydrates, protein (including gluten), yeast, minerals, etc. Gluten is "too big" as you put it, to vaporize along with the ethanol.

Wheat/barley beer does not go through that process, so most likely you did have a reaction to it. Any reaction to a a distilled spirit is 100% in your head.


Reply:

my goal is NOT to spread disinformation -- but rather to come up with accurate information -- and to develop a list of non-WRB products for those few people who may for whatever reason still have (or think they are having) a reaction to a distilled WRB product.


Reply:

Seems likely to me that some distilled products will contain gluten. Could be that the gluten was added after distillation, either with additives that contain gluten or by dust contanimation in a grain-based distillery. It also seems like gluten could come accross in a rough pot distillation, where a lot more than ethanol and water end-up in the product, even if the gluten is "carried" in a water droplet accidentally pushed through the still and into the condenser.


Reply:

It doesn't seem very likely to me. While it's theoretically possible for some contamination as you described, it's hard to imagine in any harmful quantities. The concentration limit for a certified gluten-free product is 20-200ppm (depending on definition). If we assume the wheat or other contaminant is 10% gluten, that means you'd need 150 to 1500 mg of contamination in each 750ml bottle. That would be some pretty dirty product, visible to naked eye.

And that contamination would be external, and doesn't matter what the product was made from.

No one else here is interested in defending the quality and safety of their product? These are the sort of fears that could impact your sales.


Reply:

There is never any point in arguing with people who only want 'evidence' that supports what they already believe.


Reply:

There is never any point in arguing with people who only want 'evidence' that supports what they already believe.


Reply:

Right on Charles. The town next to mine is Salem, MA. The Witch trials of 1692 pretty much created a hysteria based on what people wanted to think against the problem of the day. Two children looking to get out of trouble. I do, of course, feel for the ills felt by Weezy and others with their concerns. My own son-in-law has to watch every bite he takes for several items. I have seen him "swell" and required attention, even though he felt he was protected. Cross contamination was the issue. My point is in order to make serious comment you need serious controls on experimental process. We do not really know the controls under which Weezy makes his allegation of reacting to "WRB-distilled products" Hell, I do not even know if he exists. But I will not call him crazy. Just concerned about the control. We have not heard Weezy state he has no reaction to a full Apple Vodka, such as "Gen. Stark" or "Core".

Also, I do not think Weezy understands the distillation process if he can write "but there are also "papers" out there that say gluten is "too big" a molecule to pass through in distillation, or it is "killed" by distillation -- neither of which seems to be the case."