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Jun 08, 2022 View:

Proof Gallon Chart

Has any one seen a chart like the temperature and proof adjustment charts from the TTB for calculating the proof gallons at 100 proof. This would be a great time saver and sure would cut down on a lot of mistakes. Thanks, Coop


Reply:

Will this help? There is a web based calculator on this home distilling site. there is another site with calculators on it but I can't remember which. Will get back when i do.

http://homedistiller.org/

Go to the top headers and put your pointer on Distilling, then on Diluting the Distillate, then on Dilution calculators and click.

Has any one seen a chart like the temperature and proof adjustment charts from the TTB for calculating the proof gallons at 100 proof. This would be a great time saver and sure would cut down on a lot of mistakes. Thanks, Coop
Reply:Has any one seen a chart like the temperature and proof adjustment charts from the TTB for calculating the proof gallons at 100 proof. This would be a great time saver and sure would cut down on a lot of mistakes. Thanks, Coop
Reply:it's on the ttb web site but their server isn't responding right now. I tried to upload the pdf but it's too big for this forum. I'll get the url when the site can be reached.
Reply:

Those are the charts that I was needing, thanks to you all for your help. Now what we all really need is a abbreviated short form and only one form for the following items.

1. Production

2. Storage

3. Processing

I do not know how any of your operations work but here is what mine is.

After mashing and fermentation is complete I start striping runs which take me about 5 days to accumulate enough alcohol to do a rectifying run which only takes one day. Then I cut and mix down to 80 proof 40% ABV and bottle everything in the same day. I control my production based on how much inventory I have on the floor to sell. The forms we are now using are out dated and need to be revamped based on each DSP plants annual production. What we produce is so little that we should only be required to file quarterly. If the ttb knows how much grain or fruit or whatever we are using they already know within a gallon or two how much alcohol we are capable of producing from that product. Other than loses from spillage, filtering or other production operations. The only form that really counts is how much is bottled and at what proof. You can then take what you have bottled at what proof and pay a per bottle tax.

This would save the ttb a lot of time and money trying to process all of that paper work. They would not be so bogged down that it takes 3 to four months to notify us that we need to fill an amended form because we did not take something from another report and transpose it to the other form in order to fill out the last form. By this time the following reports from the previous three months forms now need to be amended also. It is creating a never ending cycle. Also I do not need to be informed on a separate sheet of paper that these forms are a paper saving act. Guess what if I forget to tell my printer to not print that wasted page I just wasted the paper that they say we are saving.

It takes me 4 to 5 hours to prepare the existing forms, if I have no interruptions that break my concentration, and I know it takes the ttb thousands of hours trying to figure out just what we did wrong in the first place. We were in operation for three months before I ever received any instructions on how to fill out the forms. We are not lawyers and do not have the money to hire one just to fill out forms.

Just venting a little, thanks for all your help, Coop


Reply:

I love filling out zeroes for all the stuff I don't do.


Reply:

I love those zero reports also. Have you tried using the online system to file your monthly reports (and taxes too)? I can usually get mine done in about an hour unless I have forgotten to note some critical fact during the month.

Keith


Reply:Rich,

Please don't upload content to the forum. Post a link instead....that's a general rule for all forums.

Jonathan,

That calculator does not take contraction into account...it's useless.

Coop,

What are you trying to do? I don't understand the question. Do you understand all of the tables located here:

TTB Tables at TTB.GOV

Regards,

Will


Reply:Have you tried using the online system to file your monthly reports (and taxes too)?
Reply:

Don't they have a form for that? LOL


Reply:That calculator does not take contraction into account...it's useless.

Regards,

Will


Reply:

Mixtures of ethanol and water are not proportional due to the close bonding (my chemistry on this point may be a little fuzzy) of the molecules. So a blend will require more water than expected to dilute the ethanol to the desired proof. There is a chart to account for this but I don't have one.

Keith


Reply:

1000 gallons of ethanol + 100 gallons of water does not equal 1100 gallons.

This is why the gauging manual has Table 4 Gallons per Pound to convert weight and proof to volume at 60º F.

If you use that 1100 gallons at 80 proof for tax determination, you'll have 880 proof gallons and $11,880 in tax.

If the spirits are at 72º F., that volume for gauging purposes is actually 1094.5 gallons, = 875.6 proof gallons and $11820.60 in tax. You overpaid $60. If you didn't temperature correct your hydrometer reading, you overpaid even more.

Now you might consider $60 per 1100 gallons unimportant for your business and just account for that as part of doing business. Up to you.


Reply:

I think this may be the chart that Keith was referring to:

http://www.ttb.gov/foia/gauging_manual_toc....1.1.25.5.507.6


Reply:

I feel your pain. Having spent 3 decades in the federal bureaucracy I can let you in on a secret. Although it's big the fed. govt is broken up into zillions of little departments that all operate under their own set of administrative rules. These guys can decide to create a form over a cup of coffee. It's easy, afterall this is *important*. The No.1 priority of the department serfs is career security. There are guys who have no other ambition than to come to work every day for 30 years and s..l..o..w..l..y process the same paperwork time after time after time. The payoff is an airtight retirement package.

Believe me, the incompetence and lack of ambition cannot be overstated. Unfortunately, the victims are us. The solution: cut the fed budget in half across the board and contract out anything left that is not inherently government, e.g., defense, law enforcement. Introduce competition for this busy work and you'll see it improve. Right now it is a monopoly that is being protected with tooth and nail infighting.

I'm so glad to be out of that environment....but really enjoying the retirement package.

The forms we are now using are out dated and need to be revamped based on each DSP plants annual production. What we produce is so little that we should only be required to file quarterly. If the ttb knows how much grain or fruit or whatever we are using they already know within a gallon or two how much alcohol we are capable of producing from that product. Other than loses from spillage, filtering or other production operations. The only form that really counts is how much is bottled and at what proof. You can then take what you have bottled at what proof and pay a per bottle tax.

This would save the ttb a lot of time and money trying to process all of that paper work. They would not be so bogged down that it takes 3 to four months to notify us that we need to fill an amended form because we did not take something from another report and transpose it to the other form in order to fill out the last form. By this time the following reports from the previous three months forms now need to be amended also. It is creating a never ending cycle. Also I do not need to be informed on a separate sheet of paper that these forms are a paper saving act. Guess what if I forget to tell my printer to not print that wasted page I just wasted the paper that they say we are saving.

It takes me 4 to 5 hours to prepare the existing forms, if I have no interruptions that break my concentration, and I know it takes the ttb thousands of hours trying to figure out just what we did wrong in the first place. We were in operation for three months before I ever received any instructions on how to fill out the forms. We are not lawyers and do not have the money to hire one just to fill out forms.


Reply:Mixtures of ethanol and water are not proportional due to the close bonding (my chemistry on this point may be a little fuzzy) of the molecules. So a blend will require more water than expected to dilute the ethanol to the desired proof. There is a chart to account for this but I don't have one.

Keith


Reply:

PS....

I saw how my father was struggling with all that paperwork, so i created digital copies of the TTB processing, storage and production forms he had to submit each month, complete with automatic totalizing and pre-filled "0's" so no tedious filling.

Its pretty easy to do... just DL the digital copies of the forms from the TTB website, use acrobat to create text form fields over each of the boxes, then make the ones you dont use regularly have a default value of 0 and mark them read-only... then all you have to do is hit tab and use the 10-key when filling them out each month.